MRS SANDERSON REMINISCES
CASSETTE SIDE 3
There was one lady ........... Mrs
Moore..........she was always knitting me little jumpers and things. So I used
to take her children out. My friend was Babs..... she lost her
mother........no, her mother went to live with another man in our street where
I lived and she lived in the next street. May, her mother kept an ordinary
house but she kept the front room going selling greengrocery. They was my two friends. We used to walk miles, you'ld never dream that kiddies would walk so far up the
country lanes just to get to one certain place where we used to run down the
hill. And of course I used to take these two children out, she used to perhaps
give me a halfpenny. "Right" I used to say, "What shall we 'ave, sherbert water or broken
biscuits." So if it was broken biscuits, halfpennyworth of broken biscuits
.......off we'd go . There'd be May's brother, Bab's
brother, Perhaps Babs would get hold of........ someone would want her to
look after a kiddy. Off we used to go pushing prams. The boys used to push 'em. When we got to this .......big field it was........the Daisybank, we had to climb over a fence. So I used to climb
over, they'd hand me the baby, put her on the grass and the other little kiddy,
and then the boys used to hump this pram over. We'd stay on the top there just
playing about, you know Mip
or something like that, or running down the hill. If it had been a frosty night
we used to take an old big tray, tin tray, sit on that and push 'em down the hill. Then when it was time, off home.
During the summer, we used to go right down the
hill, across the road, up a bank into a brickyard. And there we used to build
our houses. The man came one day and told us not to touch the new bricks,
showed us where the new bricks was. The old bricks, we come up the bank there,
the old bricks was right along the bank there and the
new bricks were in the kilns. They was only about that
high, but they was new bricks and when they was baked, they used to be piled
up. We could play with these but not with them. So we used to go round looking
for old tins for saucepans, pull leaves up, that was for cabbage, stones for
potatoes. The boys used to make a square - that was the kitchen - that was the living
room, that was the bedroom. Time to put babies to bed !
So in the bedroom they went.
That was a game I suppose we used to spend the time,
and sometimes we walked round the road which was much
longer than going up this steep hill. The kiddies must have been healthy, the
way we used to take them out. I often think that, you know when they grew up.
And there was another one I used to take out that went to Canada I think it
was. One birthday me aunt Annie give me a big doll, and I never took it out
because I said I was too old for dolls, I must have been about twelve. Anyway
I'd shown it to this lady and she said "Would I like to give it to her
little girl as a taking away present." Now this little one, I don't know
if she was a weakling, but her mother used to say, "You've made her what
she is. She's a fine healthy baby now." I can picture her standing at the
door, saying that. Then there was
a Mrs Stewart, as we come up the side of our house
she lived in Henry Street. I think she only had two girls. I used to take them
out, either a halfpenny or if she gave me a penny I used to get sherbert water. I used to stick that in a bottle and shake
it up and have a halfpennyworth of broken biscuits. The lady where we used to
get the broken biscuits always used to save them for us. Us two girls, whoever
got money first used to go and get them.
How many broken biscuits would you get then ?
Oh, you'd get a big bag-full like that Geoff. Were these broken while they were
serving them ? No, they was
in tins. Did they buy them broken ? No, you would buy
1lb, half a pound or a quarter. But I suppose they used to get banged about
bringing them in and there'd be a lot of broken ones. But there again there may
have been a few left and she broke them up.
Mum, when we lived in Gillingham
and I used to walk, I used to go and get a bag of broken biscuits. At the same
shop that we used to get speck apples, that would be Woodlands Road, wouldn't
it. You used to go under the railway bridge, and just the other side there were two or three shops on the left hand side,
and that shop was a greengrocery cum general stores. We used to go in there and
we either got a bag of speck apples or we could get broken biscuits. I can
remember doing that.
You know you said you had a grandma and a grandpa on
your mum's side. How many brothers and sisters did your mum have
?
There was Mrs Cole, I
don't know what her other name was, Uncle Arthur, Aunt Maud, Aunt Annie. I
don't think there were any more.
They were all Wells ? Yes.
One brother she lost - he went swimming from Chatham Pier.
Where did the Wells come from.
No idea. Me grandma, I think she had this little
shop for years, you went down steps to it. Me mum was
born there if I remember rightly. Mum was a manageress on the catering side in
a hotel and that stood up on a kind of a hill or bank. You come from Chatham
Station, come down, went round and went up the slope and this hotel was up
there. She worked there when she was young. And me Aunt Annie lived on the Maidstone Road just past the cemetery.
Me uncle Arthur lived on the Luton
Road, he had a tobacconist's and the other one lived in an ordinary house.
This was about 1914, was it ? Yes Three of them had
shops then ? Mmm. On me mother's side they was all
business people. What about
your dad ?
He came from Chatham, just the same. His sister lived at Gillingham. He had another sister in Dell Street. I don't
think he had any brothers. Did he drink much before your mum died
? Oh yes. I won't say he
was drunk every night, but he always had enough from what I can remember of
him. If my brother wasn't in for half past ten, and that was when he was 16 or
17, he had the horse whip and he used to swipe him
with it. No warning or anything, he just used to say you're late. I think he put the
fear of God into me. I was only
late once and he locked the back door on me. I kept banging and banging and Mrs Whiting, they had half of the house, she
came down. " The old sod ". I think that was
mostly why I left home. Because after that she said you should go. I was living
home when I worked at the RAOB, I got eight shillings a week and I used to have
to give my father seven. And that shilling I used to have to buy all me own
clothes with. So I joined a club in the little shop at the bottom and paid her
a shilling a week. I had no pocket money and this Mrs
Whiting used to say you're a fool working like that just to keep him in beer.
Then she brought the local paper, and said "Look,
there's a job going. Go and see if you can get it." And that's when I went
to Baldwins at the entrance to Rochester, and they
kept a sweet shop cum newsagent cum baby shop with all prams and things like that. You very rarely saw a shop on its own, they
all sold something else.
When you worked at the RAOB how old were you ? How long
did you work there ?
A year, or two years.
I was 14. Herbert was working at Lovibonds.
And where was Bill ?
No, I lost me brother with the flu in 1915 I think it was. He was 16 or 17. It was before I went
to work for the RAOB, there was this terrible 'flu. I forget what they called
it. Anyway, I had me father and me brother, and they was both in the same bed.
Couldn't get a doctor or food for love nor money. Nobody would come in to help
you 'cos they was afraid of catching it. So I had to
look after them meself. When the doctor come he said
"Oh give them all the drink you can get." But I said, "I can't get
anything." Milk - you got a quarter of a pint. Oxos ! You was lucky if you got one. Mmm -
meat - I used to queue up at 6 o'clock in the morning to get meat to make stew.
Anyway, me brother died and I had to pull me father
off the bed, pull my mattress off my bed, put me father on that and pull him
down the stairs in front of the fire. I went for a neighbour
- she wouldn't come - and one of the neighbours
across the road who my mother had done a lot for - she
was a gin drinker - and she wouldn't come across. They was
all afraid of catching it.
Did you get it?
No. Well of course we had to bury him. Me father was
still laying there and me grandma said you'll have to
come and live with me, you can't stop down here now looking after him. Let him
get on with it. But I wouldn't go.
And where was Bill then Mum ?
Out in Mesopotamia and India.
He was in the Territorials and they called them up
and they went out soon after war broke out.
He would only be about 17 then ! No, he'd be a bit older than
that. How old were you when Herbert died ? About 13 ? If you went to the RAOB at 14, 'cos
your Mum died when you were 11 - how long after that when Herbert died.
About the following year, 1915, 1916. You used to see six or seven funerals
going all along after one other. It was a terrible time.
Mum, can we go back to your childhood
? Can you remember what sort of games you used to play
?
Yeah ! We used to play five stones. I suppose
nearly everybody knows about that. You could buy them, but we used to get cobbles
or something like that and play, any kind of small stones. You just put four in
each corner - make a square - and one in the middle. The you'ld
bounce a little ball up, and as you bounced the ball up you had to pick one of
the stones up. If you either let the ball stop or the ball runs away and you
don't pick a stone up you're out.
You had to catch the ball before it bounced ? Pick a stone up and catch the ball before it
bounced again.
And then, after you'd picked all the four up and the
one in the middle you lay them all out again and you pick the one in the middle
up and then you scoop all four up in your hand.
How big a square then ?
Ohhh - small, about a foot square.
And then there was hopscotch where you marked your pavement out, 1,2 3 and 4.
You had to hop over the lines and go in each square. If you went on a line you
was out.
And then there was your skipping rope and wooden
hoops. Whip and tops - like turnips and mushrooms. Chalked on the top to make
patterns. And then if you put a bit of orange peel in a puddle in the road and
make it go all colours and stick your top on the top
your colours used to come on that. I used to get
different coloured bits of paper and stick on the
top.
Did you have leather on your whip or did you have string ?
String !
You got a bit of leather when you bought them., but it
was too harsh I think. It used to knock the top down, so we used to get string,
and at the end of the string we used to fray it and then just damp it a bit and
then it would go. The next one would be, we used to have races. We always used
to collect outside our house. I don't know why, whether it was because round
the next road there was a lot of children in the houses so it may be........
Next to our house was the alleyway, and when we started these races one
would go one way and one would go the other right round the houses, the next
street and right round - we just used to do it for the love of it. And if we were , what shall I say, cheeky, as they set off, one would
try to get off quickly before the other and then the one that was left behind
used to go through the alleyway, wait until the other one had gone past the
alleyway, and then he'd be home first. So , what we
used to do, make out we was running up the road and then stop and watch for the
other one to run down the road. And if he didn't we used to come back and see
him running through the alleyway. So, as they went down the alleyway that way
we used to just go and meet them coming out the alleyway that way.
Another one was hanging a rope on the gas lamp on
the bar that stuck out. They used to come round lighting the lamps with a
little hook thing and pull a little lever down. There was always arms sticking
out and we used to put a bit of rope round that and make a swing and have a
swing on it. We couldn't have been any weight or we would have broken the thing
off. Another thing is that when me father used to have all the straw and hay
delivered - as you know the straw is in big bales - the hay was as well. It
used to be put above the stables in what we called the loft and there was a
door outside where they used to put it on a hook and with a rope pull it up and
then pull it into the loft. Well when my father used to be out, we used to be
daredevils and put this hay and straw, throw it down the big hole in the
stable, a trapdoor like, and we used to sit on the trap door and drop down and
see how many could do that ...... somebody would be
counting how many we could do in the least numbers. That was another game we
used to get up to.
Tying the letterboxes, you know there always used to
be like a little handle on the letterbox, and we used to tie a piece of string
on one, 'cos both doors would be like that, and we
used to knock at the door and scoot like anything, go round the corner and look
at them trying to pull it open. But people in the house got used to this kind
of thing, so when we'd done it - it had to be dark - one night we'd done it and
we'd got round the corner and there was one of the men round that corner,
another man round that corner, and the woman answered the door. So, as we was
standing there giggling and running along, so both men
grabbed us. We never done that one again, at least not
those two houses. They swiped us good and proper. Mothers never complained in
those days. If you went and told your mother Mrs so
and so gave you a good smacking round the behind or on your arm or anything,
she'd say "What have you been doing, it serves you right," and you
got another swipe from your parents, so you kept quiet about it.
This happened when me mother was alive. We used to
put on little pantomimes in our yard and this particular one stands out in my
mind - Sleeping Beauty. It was two chairs, me mother brought them down, and
there was a plank went across the chairs, so it laid
like a bed. And a big pillow or cushion, and the sheets off my bed and Sleeping
Beauty laid on it. The Prince was an Irish boy, Danny, and as he came to kiss
the girl his foot kept going under the chair. We used to charge a farthing or a
halfpenny and if say six come in, before we started we used to go round and buy
some sherbert water and broken biscuits and put them
in our kitchen. Me mum used to let us have some mugs or something like that.
Sometimes the mothers of the kiddies used to look over the fence at us. Right,
to go back to Danny. He was kicking underneath the chair and one of the girls
said, "What are you doing that for Danny ?"
So he said, "Where's the pot ?" LAUGHTER In those days people didn't take
any notice of it but it caused a laugh. I said, "Oh, princesses don't have
pots under the bed." So anyway, the princess was laughing now and he said "You shouldn't laugh. You have to wait until I
kiss you before you wake up." But I can't remember anything else after
that but it caused quite a laugh. We used to have quite a few of those,
Saturday afternoons.
What was that game you used to tell me about, Cherry
Oggles ?
Oh, when the cherries was
in we used to rub the stones so that all the cherry was off them and dry them.
Then we use to put, we had drain pipes, and they used
to come out like that and go up like that. We used to put a ring round the
bottom of it. We used to throw so many cherry stones, perhaps two or three, and
you had to wait for them to come down. We used to sit on the ground and throw
them up the pipe and as they came out, those that didn't go into the ring the
other people used to have 'em. But those that went in
the ring it was yours back. No, you left them there
and the next person come along and they'd do it. But the one who got most in
the ring first going off claimed all of them. I don't know what happened to the
cherry stones afterwards. But that was another game, but it was only cherry
time we had that.
Another time we would think, oh let's go out into
the country. Let's go scrumping in the orchard. It
wasn't far, along by the waterworks we used to go, and there was a man along
there used to let us pick up the falls. But of course the boys couldn't find
enough so they used to go along there and give the trees a good shake. But when
we'd got enough, our pockets filled, we'd go off back home again. That was over
half an hour's walk there and halfhour back. Of
course then again, when the hop-picking come along
quite a few of my friends used to go with their aunts hop-picking. We used to
get up about six or halfpast in the morning, seven
o'clock we was on the road. It was a heck of a way when I think of it now.
Did you walk there ?
Yes. There was no transport. We had to go right out
to the Waggon and Horses - oh I forget the name of
the place. It was quite a long walk. Right at the end of Luton
road, you turn round by the tram station then you carried on up until you come
to the Waggon and Horses and you carried right on the
first hopfield which was a long long
way right by the oasthouses. And when that field was
done you went to the next field and you was gradually
making your way in towards home. And the last hop field was right by the Waggon and Horses, and it was always on a Saturday morning
you done that bit, finished that bit.
And the people used to go in the Waggon and
Horses and drink all the money they'd...........well they used to get what they
called a sub. The men used to come round to see if anyone wanted a sub. I think
it was mostly the people who come from London or anywhere like that and wanted
to get home to give 'em their train fare kind of
thing. But us kids used to have the time of our lives. There was always hops
left in the big bins and we used to be rolled in those, and then they used to
throw all the old sacks on top of us. Oh, I really looked forward to that day,
and they used to bring us out bottles of lemonade to drink.
You used to take a picnic with you, did you ?
No, most mothers had their, oh I suppose you would
call it a picnic, sandwiches and things like that, but it was generally a lump
of boiled bacon and a lump of bread......great big
slices of bread and butter.........you sat nibbling that.
How much did you get paid ?
It was so many bushels to the shilling. About five bushels, I'd say the baskets
stood about three foot high. The men had a hook and the pulled these vines down
and the bins at each end was like that. And then there was a long pole went
right across these things and then there was sacking went round like that and
there was a pole that side and a pole that side which you could sit
on.........a bit hard to sit on.........and you'ld
scratch all the hops off the vines, you know, keep pulling them. You had your
own little bin to yourself and each individual picked their hops in their own
bin. The lady I went with, Mrs Packer, she used to say - "Keep yours out till the
last Winn, we'll put those on top".
'Cos if there was a lot of leaves in they wouldn't have it, you had to
keep all the leaves out. So she used to put some of hers in the middle then
some of mine - I was called a clean picker. We used to go down every day and
Saturday in the school holidays. The people from London stayed there in huts
and had their cooking things there as well. The Londoners mainly went
Canterbury way. It wasn't our way, it was more the
other way. And the Palmers then, the people who owned the hop fields, used to
have all these big huts waiting for them with cooking facilities. One hut was
where they could sleep. I've never seen it but from what people told me it was
a long hut or marquee with all these cooking stoves for the women to cook on.
And also a big wash place where they could do their washing and have a wash as
well. I don't know if they used to have their railway fare sent to them, I've
no idea, but I know it was Chatham Station, no, not Chatham, I can't remember
the station, but I used to hear me father say, "Oh the hop pickers have
arrived." It was a holiday for the London children and a treat for us.
I first started when me mum was alive and she used
to save all me old clothes up to wear out. Then when me mother died I went, I
suppose a couple of years, and then this lady went into munitions when the war
broke out but they still wanted people to pick the hops. So this lady said
"Why don't you go on your own Winn." So my friend couldn't come, but
her brother wanted to come with us, so he came to help me. So I said "If you pick well we'll share the money we
make." But he used to go out playing half the time, so when it come to
paying out, I told me father all about it and he said "He's not entitled
to half of it then if he's not been working." So I didn't give him half of
it and his father come round wanting to know why. So I told him and my father
was there standing and said "You can't expect the girl to work while your
son was playing around." So the father said to the son, "Did yer.?" Well he said "I don't like picking hops," so that finished
it. His father gave him a clout and told him not to come to him with all his
tales. But after that I got fed up with going out - wet
mornings - trudging along in the rain, and I packed it in. Of course they made it worthwhile
during the war, you didn't have to pick the hops for so little money. You got
more money because, I don't know if they made a
medicine out of it, they do these days out of hops, but for beer. Labour was difficult to get. You got more money going into
munitions. Londoners as well, they all went into this war work, aircraft
factories, machinery things like that.
So then from hop picking I went to this lady I used
to go hop picking with. She was in
munitions so one day she asked me if I'd go over and clean her rooms up. I was
12 or 13 then and I'd left school, so I used to go over, and more so if it was
a cold day, I used to lay her fires, and clean up the room, wash up her
breakfast things, go up and make her bed, dust round her bedroom and general
keep things tidy. Before she come home, if it was a cold day, I'd go across and
light her fire and bank it up for her and put the kettle on the hob so that was
nearly boiling when she came in. Oh, I done that for
quite a long while. Then, I think she had to give it up, it was in a rope
factory, a tarry smell, I don't know what they was doing in there but it got
down on her chest and I remember her being a short fat lady, but she was always
so cheerful and she had beautiful long hair. She used to have headaches very
badly and she'd say, "Winn come and brush my hair." And I used to
brush her hair and put it in all different parts and she used to sit there
going to sleep and when she woke up she'd say, "Oh that's better, have you
been on it all this while." I can picture it now. One of the old
grandfather chairs, wooden chairs, and she had a big cushion at the back and
she used to sit in front of the fire, in the downstairs room, and her hair was
golden or brown and lovely and long, and as you kept brushing it it went shiny. I used to love doing it.
What can you remember about Christmasses
when you were a child ?
Very little.
Of course after me mum died we had very little Christmas. Before she died we
had nice Christmasses. We used to hang our stockings
up, maker paper chains, a real Christmas tree - we paid about 6d for it. Me
father used to bring it home from the market. It always stood in the corner, there was a fireplace there, a window there, and my
father used to sit in his big armchair there. The table was along here, the settee along there, on this side of the wall was
the sewing machine and chairs either side. Then there was the door leading
upstairs and then you come along on this side of the wall. There was a table in
the middle which me mum had plants and photos on and there was chairs either
side of there, then you come to the door that led into the shop and down the
stairs. The fireplace would be on that side, like you come down there, the door
there, and the fireplace was there, and the window here. It always used to be
up by the window. But we didn't have fairy lights on it in those days, no
electricity you see.
I can't remember what we hung on the tree. I think
more or less we used to make the things. We used to cut things out made of
paper or cardboard and crayon them. The presents would be tied onto the
branches. I think it was the Christmas before me mum died she bought me one of
those little pianos 'cos I was always playing on her
treadle machine. After that me father never bothered. One Christmas Eve, he
used to go and have his drink at the Magpie, he took me up there and I was
allowed to go and sit in the room at the back where the people used to take
their children. And the lady, I don't know whether she owned the pub, but I
used to go up there sometimes and get me father a pint of beer in a bottle from
the bottle and jug department, it was just a slip of a place, you could stand
and drink but it was more........it was away from all
the other part. So she knew me,
and I remember her bringing me mince pies and sandwiches and me father had
bought me some ginger wine. I used to love that. I sat there until me father
was ready to go home. Me brother on Christmas day, he just went off to his
pals. I didn't have much Christmas, and after that, one of the neighbours where I used to go and look after the children,
I used to go down there on a Christmas afternoon and the evening. I used to
stop there for tea and the evening playing games........Ludo, Snakes and Ladders, and things like that. Of course
as I got older Christmas didn't mean much to me. During the war there was
nothing you could buy or do. No radio.
Did you have one of those gramophones with a horn.?
Yes we had one of those. Me favourite
record was, When I'm Blowing Bubbles. I tell why we had that. Me eldest brother
was apprenticed to a house decorator, and of course when he got called up as he
was in the Territorials, he was put into the West
Kent regiment and sent abroad. A young lad took his place and they come to
paint the house up. He was always whistling and singing this, When I'm Blowing
Bubbles. I don't know where we got the record from.
Whether he gave it to us or me father
- I
can't picture me father buying it - or whether me brother bought it. But I know
we had this record. He was always singing that. We used to call him the bubble
boy.